Timeline for Is it illegal to infringe copyright if your boss or your client ordered you to do it?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
24 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jun 25, 2021 at 22:56 | comment | added | SegNerd | This isn’t exactly a legal issue, but there is a practical problem. I think everyone knows the real right answer is “Don’t do it, and report your boss.” But at least in the US, everyone also knows that if you do that, you will get fired, and no one will do anything to help you (or punish the boss) even though you were legally right. | |
| Feb 19, 2019 at 15:10 | comment | added | i486 | @PaulJohnson I agree but can have useful "psychological effect". The boss may not risk perjury if he knows about the record. | |
| Feb 19, 2019 at 15:05 | comment | added | Paul Johnson | @i486 The legality of that is a whole other question. | |
| Feb 19, 2019 at 15:00 | comment | added | i486 | It is better to use voice recorder to store the "order". | |
| Feb 17, 2019 at 22:18 | comment | added | Sulthan | @blankip Not absolutely true. We had a case in 2000 in Czech Republic when Microsoft started a criminal prosecution of an e-shop. The cops paralised the company for many months, courts ended after years, some of them are actually in progress. If something like that happens and somebody knows about it, it can be a way to destroy competition. | |
| Feb 17, 2019 at 9:18 | comment | added | Paul Johnson | @The_Sympathizer You cannot make a contract to do something illegal, if that is what you are asking. | |
| Feb 17, 2019 at 1:40 | comment | added | Mike Waters | @blankip I mostly agree, but illegal use of some software carries a significant risk. I'm thinking of Autodesk products. All our software is legit, and we wouldn't have it any other way. | |
| Feb 17, 2019 at 0:03 | comment | added | The_Sympathizer | What happens if in the second scenario the demand comes up after you have already signed the contract, and moreover the contract terms said that the employee would not be required to pay for any additional softwares required? Would the consequences (and how respectable people would look at your character years in the future) of then reneging on the contract to avoid the crime at least stand a high probability of being significantly milder than those for the criminal infringement? Could you even successfully argue in court the contract could be reasonably considered invalidated at that point? | |
| Feb 16, 2019 at 21:47 | comment | added | Harper - Reinstate Monica | Where is the commercial gain for the employee? He gets paid the same whether he does it or not. No commercial gain. This also blindsided Randal Schwarz, when he was asked if his routine pen-testing of his employer's servers was "for personal gain", and he thought the very concept of being an employee meant all actions as an employee constituted personal gain, because the gain was the salary. Actually, they meant other than that e.g. Private benefit e.g. Inurement. | |
| Feb 16, 2019 at 20:12 | comment | added | user64742 | @reed to go even further in elaboration copyright violation doesn't have to result in any punishment. Copyright is up to the discretion of the holder. For instance, a court can't send you to jail if the entity whose software you took says "Don't arrest this person, they have permission." or "I'd prefer to sue them for money and not press criminal charges.". So a company could just have a stance on copyright such that they don't personally feel it should be criminal and only seek civil suits, regardless of police motivation. But this doesn't make it ethically right nor should you rely on that. | |
| Feb 16, 2019 at 14:33 | comment | added | IllusiveBrian | @reed The police and public prosecutors have discretion in what crimes they spend resources investigating and prosecuting. In the case of copyright infringement, the cost is fairly high in comparison to the amount of money that is usually being lost (they need to track down your ISP, get a warrant, find you that way, prove who actually downloaded it, etc). The amount you've stolen would probably be comparable to shoplifting, which is both cheaper to investigate and has a nonzero chance of going from non-violent to violent, and they won't even always investigate that beyond looking at tapes. | |
| Feb 16, 2019 at 7:35 | comment | added | Dale M♦ | In most jurisdictions, employees are civilly liable as well as sheeting vicarious liability to the employer | |
| Feb 16, 2019 at 0:03 | comment | added | user13624 | @JBentley If not doing what your boss asks will lead you to not get a bonus, raise or promotion, would that count as commercially gaining as an employee if you did download the software illegally? | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 23:39 | comment | added | reed | @blankip, can you explain why sometimes copyright infringement is dealt with civil law, and other times with criminal law? Does this mean it's not always a crime? Who or what makes this distinction? | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 22:24 | comment | added | David Thornley | @TemporalWolf My understanding of these lines is that they're private, and hence deal with civil liability. Certainly the BSA was known for settling in exchange for software purchases, which isn't something a criminal court would do. | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 22:22 | comment | added | RBarryYoung | Re: HR, medium or larger companies have HR departments which unfortunately are often legally uninformed and generally toothless, especially on matters like this. Large companies also frequently have Legal departments which are usually much more competent and organizationally capable of addressing a situation like this. | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 21:37 | comment | added | TemporalWolf | @blankip until the client notices it's illegal software and calls one of the "report unlicensed software for money" lines. | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 20:15 | comment | added | blankip | Correct answer however working in this sector for many years I can tell you this has almost a zero chance of being prosecuted criminally. I mean you would only have a .0001% chance of prosecution criminally if you had a blog that outlined your activity. There simply aren't police that monitor illegal software. This is 100% a civil issue. Speaking of it as a criminal issue is blowing this well out of context. Criminal would be downloading and selling the software - and even that is dealt with on a civil basis 9 out of 10 times. | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 18:47 | comment | added | JBentley | Where is the commercial gain from doing this as an employee? It seems to me that, short of getting fired, the OP will get paid his salary whether he installs the software or not. Perhaps instead the employee could be liable for aiding and abetting by following his employer's instructions (since it is more clear that there is a commercial gain to the employer)? | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 17:16 | comment | added | 1006a | Not only is it illegal even if you're paid to do it, it might be more illegal if you're paid to do it, since now there's the possibility of a criminal conspiracy charge (potentially even before you actually download or install any software). | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 16:49 | vote | accept | reed | ||
| Feb 15, 2019 at 13:59 | history | edited | Paul Johnson | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Added TL;DR.
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| Feb 15, 2019 at 13:55 | comment | added | Mołot | TL;DR It is illegal to break law even if you are paid to do it ;) | |
| Feb 15, 2019 at 12:16 | history | answered | Paul Johnson | CC BY-SA 4.0 |