Timeline for Can someone be penalized for an "unlawful" act if no penalty is specified?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
18 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Apr 10, 2019 at 22:46 | comment | added | Putvi | Phoog, its when congress has given the ability to be punished that an action is normally considered a crime. It's not that any law is a crime when you break it. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:39 | comment | added | Putvi | law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I Those are what are considered criminal offenses. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:36 | comment | added | Putvi | It wouldn't be in front of him as it's not listed as a criminal offense. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:35 | comment | added | phoog | But that goes right back to the heart of my question: What basis would the judge use to decide whether someone charged with violating 8 USC 1185(b) has been charged with a criminal offense? | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:25 | comment | added | Putvi | Phoog, infractions and midemeanors would be criminal offenses as well. Even if you are charged via complaint, for one of those, you go to the judge for a preliminary hearing and he or she decides if you violated a criminal offense. Read the preliminary hearing section here. justice.gov/usao-mn/criminal-procedures | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:21 | comment | added | user6726 | The part where you claim "there are further laws that address passports that do establish punishments". You did not show that there source in law for this claim. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:16 | history | edited | phoog | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
Fixing link
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| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:16 | comment | added | phoog | Thanks for the information about indictments. The justice.gov link notes that misdemeanor charges do not require the involvement of a grand jury, and the Wikipedia article also mentions a lower class of offence called "infraction." Can we be certain that the unlawful acts described in §1185(b) do not constitute a misdemeanor or (perhaps more likely) an infraction? If so, how? | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:10 | comment | added | Putvi | Phoog, I added a section dealing how one is charged in criminal law since you asked about it in general and I did not see your comment when I started my original answer. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 20:09 | history | edited | Putvi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
added 1053 characters in body
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| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:43 | comment | added | Putvi | Yes, the penalties only apply to non citizens. There is no penalty for leaving without a passport if you are a citizen. There was was a fine proposed for a citizen trying to re-enter without a passport as given in the link I provided. messersmithlaw.com/ina-212a7a | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:40 | comment | added | phoog | "some infractions give you a lifetime ban if you are not a citizen": that is not relevant to the statute under discussion, which applies only to citizens. The WHTI fee mentioned in the passportinfo.com post is still in the proposed rule stage (reginfo.gov/public/do/…), as it has been for three years. (It also appears not to apply to US citizens entering by air.) | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:32 | comment | added | Putvi | @user6726 which part do you want a law citation for? | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:30 | comment | added | Putvi | Also, some infractions give you a lifetime ban if you are not a citizen.. See dyanwilliamslaw.com/tag/form-i-860 | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:30 | comment | added | user6726 | Your citation for passport laws is not law, it is policy-related rhetoric. I could not be used in court to establish that a law was violated. We need a citation with USC or CFR in it. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:27 | comment | added | Putvi | The main method of dealing with it would be deportation. A punishment does not have to be imprisonment or fines. That does not apply to actual citizens though. The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative is not meant to punish actual American citizens, but fines have been suggested. passportinfo.com/blog/new-passport-fines-on-us-border-crossing | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:20 | comment | added | phoog | "there are further laws that address passports that do establish punishments": can you cite those laws? I do not see any. | |
| Apr 10, 2019 at 19:16 | history | answered | Putvi | CC BY-SA 4.0 |