Timeline for How is a plain-clothes officer entering your house not an unreasonable search?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
22 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Oct 23, 2023 at 4:33 | vote | accept | robertspierre | ||
| Oct 7, 2021 at 14:29 | comment | added | supercat | @AmiralPatate: You could say that you saw something that might been a gun, but took no particular notice of it, nor made any particular effort to determine what it was, a level of certainty that would leave plenty of room for doubt in response to cross-examination. | |
| Oct 7, 2021 at 13:36 | comment | added | AmiralPatate | @supercat What is true is that there generally is no duty to report a crime. Some exceptions apply. What's also true is that being very polite isn't a good defense for providing a false testimony. If you saw a gun, you saw a gun. You may not have to report it, but you can't lie that you didn't see it when asked. | |
| Oct 7, 2021 at 10:59 | comment | added | PC Luddite | @supercat there's a pretty big difference between pretending not to notice something potentially embarrassing (left out anti-diarrhea pills) and pretending not to notice something criminal and/or life threatening (e.g. a gun) | |
| Oct 7, 2021 at 10:40 | comment | added | prosfilaes | @supercat If people have illegal material in a room, I suggest they not let anyone into that room who they don't know is down with it. I suspect that polite society has regularly been roiled by gossip from guests who heard a clip of a phone call or seen a carelessly placed letter or telegram, and police would generally consider "illegal activity" as sufficiently urgent to violate rules of courtesy. | |
| Oct 7, 2021 at 5:38 | comment | added | supercat | @JoshuaGrossoReinstateCMs: Members of polite society generally regard as "invisible" or "inaudible" things which they are not entitled to see or hear, even if they are physically able to see or hear them, and refrain from mentioning such things to anyone in any manner that might cause embarrassment. Someone issues may be sufficiently urgent as to justify violating normal rules of courtesy, but requiring that people have a dedicated room for uninvited guests doesn't seem practical. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 22:48 | comment | added | Josh Grosso | @supercat “Granting an uninvited guest permission to physically enter a dwelling does not imply a grant of permission to look at anything therein and take particular notice of what is seen.” This is a lot of fancy words for “you can’t look around”, which is absurd IMO. With the exception of e.g. personal correspondence or medicine labels, I don’t expect things lying around to remain private—are my guests supposed to close their eyes? | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 19:09 | comment | added | Jirka Hanika | @supercat - Posession of something looking at first glance like a GCA-68 might be a probable cause for illegal possession of an GCA-68. William Wooden fared better than Tamir Rice. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 19:02 | comment | added | supercat | @PCLuddite: Further, while I don't know whether defense raised this as an argument, I don't think that knowledge that someone has in his dwelling an artifact that at first glance looks like a GCA-68 firearm, but might be a prop gun, airgun, blank-firing replica, antique gun, muzzle loader, or other legal object, should in and of itself represent probable cause of anything. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 18:56 | comment | added | supercat | @PCLuddite: Common courtesy dictates that people regard certain things as "invisible". Granting an uninvited guest permission to physically enter a dwelling does not imply a grant of permission to look at anything therein and take particular notice of what is seen. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 18:34 | comment | added | PC Luddite | @Hobbamok is there a country where you can invite someone into your home, they see you do something illegal, and you can expect that not to be used as evidence against you? I'm honestly curious why being an officer should have any bearing on that. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 11:12 | comment | added | jmoreno | @Hobbamok: it’s not complete bs, if the officer had been a civilian and immediately upon seeing the gun pulled out a phone and reported the situation, it would be probable cause for a warrant (although it would have taken longer). The fact that the officer didn’t have to get a warrant because the officer witnessed the crime is really irrelevant. The question would be twofold, (a) was the person acting as an agent (yes in this case) and if so, (b) was the person legally allowed to be there (again yes). The people you allow to view your crimes can generally be witnesses against you. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 10:55 | comment | added | Hobbamok | IMHO its complete bullshit to consenting the officer to enter, because he allowed a civilian to enter his house, not an officer. But I guess that's the US for ya | |
| S Oct 6, 2021 at 8:56 | history | suggested | adam.baker | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
fixed grammar
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| Oct 6, 2021 at 8:56 | review | Suggested edits | |||
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| Oct 6, 2021 at 4:16 | comment | added | Acccumulation | @Nat That is largely a myth, although there are situations where there could be a requirement to identify as a police officer. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 2:52 | comment | added | reirab | @alephzero The same is true in the U.S., but the situation here is the opposite. The officer did not identify himself as such and likely would not have been invited into the home if he had. Nat's comment was about the hypothetical situation of if the officer had lied and said that he was not a police officer. That generally wouldn't change anything and that's obviously what any undercover law enforcement officer would do if asked. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 2:50 | comment | added | alephzero | No idea about US police procedures, but in the UK if is entirely reasonable to ask an alleged police officer for ID, including phoning his police station to check if an ID card offered as evidence (for example) is valid. | |
| Oct 6, 2021 at 2:21 | comment | added | Nat | Would it have mattered if the officer did lie about being police? I've heard claims about police being required to identify themselves upon being asked, though most of the stuff I'm finding online refutes that as a myth. | |
| Oct 5, 2021 at 21:59 | comment | added | gnasher729 | The famous “don’t pick up a firearm in front of strangers if you are not allowed to own one” exception. | |
| Oct 5, 2021 at 11:21 | comment | added | Trish | the famous "Plain sight exception" | |
| Oct 5, 2021 at 10:20 | history | answered | motosubatsu | CC BY-SA 4.0 |