Timeline for Hobbyist electronics in cars
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
17 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sep 7, 2023 at 13:39 | comment | added | Lundin | @StuartF I really haven't claimed that bad electronics would be a more severe risk than tampering with mechanical parts. Just that it is much harder to foresee what consequences electronics have in a car, since they are vastly more complex than anything else in it. The average car these days has some 50 to 100 different microcontrollers sitting in numerous sub-systems. You can't foresee the exact consequences even as system designer, you can only force everything to follow generic design templates (EMC, ASIL qualification, MISRA software, automotive grade temperature ranges etc etc). | |
| Sep 7, 2023 at 13:28 | comment | added | Stuart F | I think you've got a grossly inflated sense of the importance (or risk) of electronics. It's entirely possible that a mechanical feature such as a spoiler or roof rack could interfere with the car's aerodynamics or stability at high speed and contribute to an accident. Even a fur covering on the steering wheel could come loose, get in the driver's face, and cause an accident. What will count is the degree to which the person was negligent or ignored a foreseeable risk. Lots of people modify their car radios etc without causing accidents or getting jailed, but of course there's a small risk. | |
| Sep 6, 2023 at 6:40 | comment | added | Lundin | @PeterM Because the regulations are different? If you put on a custom spoiler on your car, you might need to show it the vehicle inspection, but nobody forces you to hire a mechanics consultant and book time in a wind tunnel to verify that the spoiler isn't dangerous. Mechanics is more hands-on; you can easily predict the consequences of poorly installed mechanical part. Whereas there's no way to easily predict what will happen if for example some Arduino controlling a MOSFET starts shooting voltage spikes into the chassis ground or broadcast >1W amateur radio inside the engine compartment. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 15:12 | comment | added | Lag | @Lundin The insurance policy being void, the insurer does not pay out. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 14:31 | comment | added | Peter M | Why do you think that when it comes to consequences, that there is a distinction between a mechanical part or an electronic part? | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 11:26 | comment | added | Trish | In the broadest generalities, the law does care for where it is before it concearns with what it is, and then with how it is installed. You could have 10 shoddy break disks screwed to the floor of the trunk, but for all the law cares, that's perfectly legal - that's ballast. But mount one break disk backward or a part that is unfit for the car, it matters, as that is not how the part is to be mounted in compliance with the UNECE 10. BTW, it's UNECE, not UN ECE! Which matters: it is not a UN regulation, it is a regulation by the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:47 | comment | added | Lundin | Please note that I'm not really asking about how to establish if something is causing interference or not - I would imagine that this would be quite an intricate procedure in many cases. Hence one of the described scenarios is: what are the consequences if it is established and proven that the hobbyist device was the cause. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:47 | comment | added | PMF | I guess the question is then "how much EMV can the thing generate" and "how much must the car electronics accept without being affected?" If every passenger is using their cell phone in the car, connected to the cigarette plug, there's probably more disturbance than a single Arduino could ever generate. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:33 | review | Close votes | |||
| Sep 18, 2023 at 19:11 | |||||
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:26 | comment | added | Lundin | @Trish If a product is only active when not moving through traffic, an exception from UN ECE R10 might be carried out, so that's not relevant here. Furthermore, for example some generic hobbyist device mounted next to safety-critical parts like the ECU or ABS module etc is probably less likely to cause harmful interference than say some home-made wireless device mounted around the seats, for the intended purpose of "harmless fun" transmitting music to some speakers, while also broadcasting a high radio frequency disturbance throughout the whole car. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:22 | comment | added | Trish | The question is very much where and how you mount what - the EM emissions of a 5V arduino that only runs when the car is in park mode (power to it is controlled by a NO switch on the P column of the control) mounted far away from the actual driving critical components and in a tinfoil box are so much unable to disrupt any other device in the vehicle while mounting an EMP charged by the battery and aimed at the car computer is a whole different spiel. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:19 | comment | added | Lundin | @Trish The point which I tried to make in detail here is that you can't reason about electronics like that. It isn't possible to claim "it just lights up the dashboard", since any electrical device comes with radiated and conducted emissions that may disrupt other electronics on the vehicle. As for who carries out the installation, I really don't see how it matters if you haven't put the device through EMC testing. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:17 | comment | added | Trish | this highly depends on what the part does. Is it just a fancy "I light up the dashboard when not driving in rainbow colors" or is it "I tune the motor to inch out half a watt more power"? Is the part "safety critical" such as breaks or is it only cosmetic, such as the radio? Is it inside the car or outside? Is it a shoddy attempt to mimic a commercial part or is it properly done in a workshop from similar materials, just not certified? All those influence legality. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:17 | comment | added | Lundin | @Lag Most likely indeed. That might be one aspect of it, since car traffic insurance is mandatory in many countries. But suppose that nobody finds out until the scenarios described happen? | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:14 | comment | added | Lag | Such a modification will likely void the insurance, unless the insurer is informed about it and agrees to insure the car. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:13 | comment | added | Lundin | This question is similar: law.stackexchange.com/questions/47893/…. But please note that I'm not asking about which formal procedures one should go through, but rather what the consequences will be if you don't. | |
| Sep 5, 2023 at 9:11 | history | asked | Lundin | CC BY-SA 4.0 |